Films like Boiling Point have cast a spotlight on the intense working culture in top kitchens. John paints a light-hearted picture of this culture, but says those days are largely gone for good.

“It’s like having two lumps of pastry mixed together for me. I can see the good, the bad, and the evil of all of it.”

• From parmentier potatoes to steak au poivre, John highlights the French influence on British cuisine and cooking in the 1970s – and the difficulties this posed to a “dyslexic lad from Yorkshire”.
• With the French word “chef” translating as “boss”, John traces the dictatorial dynamic of kitchens in that era.
• Mentions the rise of American and English chefs in the 1980s, including Robert Carrier and John Tovey, and links their lineage to cooking techniques such as demi-glazing.
• Pays tribute to Nico Ladeniz – who trained Gordon Ramsay – and Michael Quinn, the first ever English Head Chef of the Ritz and “another successful Yorkshireman”.

Alex transitions the conversation to John’s work in the public sector, specifically on NHS foodservice.

“It’s about money. If you want great hospital food – and the same in schools – and better facilities, it needs investment.”

• John’s involvement with the NHS project began during his time on BBC MasterChef, following his work with John Prescott and Lloyd Grossman.
• Visited 48 hospitals over two-and-a-half years to assess and improve foodservice operations.
• Explains the logistical challenges of serving 1 million meals each day.
• Compares contract catering, in-house preparation, and centralised production models.
• Identifies funding and investment as the foundations for improving quality and facilities.

Drawing on unique experiences, John outlines the difficulties and lessons learned through his work in Middle Eastern countries including Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

“You learn that it’s their country, they’re great people, and you become part of their team. What you don’t do is dictate to them that you’re from a ‘better country’ and you’re cleverer. Become one of them. You work shoulder to shoulder, you clean the floor, you shred, you chop.”

• Highlights the need to respect local customs, attitudes, and working styles when working abroad.
• Reiterates the importance of humility, teamwork, and open-mindedness in intercultural hospitality projects.

John and Alex explore the hospitality trends likely to shape the industry over the next decade. The conversation covers everything from centralised food production to automation, with a focus on balancing efficiency and quality.

“I’d rather the chef concentrate on searing that wonderful piece of sea bass perfectly because potatoes came in already pre-prepared.”

Using the example of a local cake producer in Kuwait, John demonstrates the potential value of centralised food production – a model where food is prepared in one location and then distributed to multiple service points.

The pair also weigh up the pros and cons of automated, machine-led food preparation. John recalls: “I used to chop parmentier potatoes into squares for four hours a day – I’d go to bed not counting sheep but diced potatoes.”

• Automation could improve efficiency, but risks reducing skill and artistry in cooking.
• Centralised production can deliver consistency, but may limit menu flexibility.
• Technological change is essential to address staff shortages while encouraging innovation.

John also warns how far behind UK hospitality businesses are compared to the Middle East in adopting these trends – and calls for decisive action to close the gap.

In closing, John reflects on what lies ahead, sharing a personal wish for a fulfilling future in both life and work.

“I want to be happy and enjoy my life.”

With a mix of humour and honesty, he talks about finding happiness, balance, and satisfaction in a hospitality industry that can often be challenging.